Cleveland: The Most Resilient Impervious Irrepressible Place There Is

by Cleveland Frowns on June 30, 2011

There’s hardly anything more fun than when people rank things, and the latest rankings couldn’t come at a better time, with the Cleveland MLB team having just wrapped up a three game series against the Diamondbacks during which everybody was talking about how many Cleveland fans were in the stands in Arizona.

@PaulieB621 got right to the point on Twitter Tuesday night by noting and asking:

“There’s more [Tribe] fans in the seats in AZ than there are in Cleveland during the week. Embarrassing or Encouraging?”

Well, look.

You don’t have to be Al Gore to wonder about what kind of damage is done by people who blame their problems on the weather and run off to the desert to soak in a massive sprawl of freon and chlorine.* It’s like when young Clevelanders move from the fertile banks of the Valley of the People to the godforsaken swamps of Chicago because there are more whores there, but much worse. If only embarrassment was all we had to worry about here.

Of course, these problems are massive and structural, and there are no easy answers. The start to any solution can only be to dig deep, focus with precision, and take the inches that are around us as we find them, one at a time. Which is why we should be especially thankful for the work of Jeff Opperman, a senior adviser at leading conservation nonprofit, The Nature Conservancy.

Per Scene’s Kyle Swenson, Opperman has just completed a study ranking the top 50 U.S. cities in terms of resilience to climate change, and Cleveland, of course, ranked at the top of the list (Milwaukee, Detroit, Chicago and Minneapolis round out the top 5).

Per Opperman:

I … factored that cities’ biggest concerns from climate change include disruptions to water supplies, increased risk of natural disasters (e.g., floods and hurricanes), and the heat itself: in addition to causing general discomfort, heat is already the biggest weather-related source of mortality. …

Rust Belt cities do so well in my rankings … [because] they have a sustainable water supply (in four of the cities, the Great Lakes); their heat stress rankings are relatively low; and they are less vulnerable to natural disasters that will be exacerbated by climate change, such as floods, landslides and wildfires.

Sustainable water supply, low heat stress, low vulnerability to natural disasters; Of course. And of course, the “obvious observation”:

“One obvious observation is that the most climate-vulnerable cities include some of the fastest growing regions of the country, while the most climate-resilient include several cities with flat or even declining populations. So the country’s population is shifting away from places that are better-equipped to deal with climate change and toward areas that may face the greatest disruptions from climate change.”

The country’s population is shifting away from the less vulnerable places to the more vulnerable ones. What could make more sense than this?

Of course, the problem with so many people in America today is that they suck, and they suck because they’re soft. They’re soft because they can’t deal with reality, and they can’t deal with reality because, with America being what it is, they haven’t really ever had to.

So of course it should be no surprise that the places from which so many folks today are hasty to escape happen to be places like Cleveland; places that are the most impervious to climate change and natural disaster, i.e., places that are the most impervious to the force that’s most threatening to reality as we know it. Of course, when the chickens come home to roost, these folks will naturally be the last to notice.

We probably shouldn’t need any official rankings to tell us this, but it doesn’t hurt to have science confirm. Cleveland: You must be some jerk if you don’t live here. Also, really repressible and unimpervious.

—————

*As much as there will always be an opposite to smuggling whiskey into a late-December Browns game, things have gone so far in the wrong direction from the days of soaking bedsheets in irrigation ditches and sleeping outside, hoping for a breeze that it’s hard to believe we’re even on the same planet anymore.

  • eldaveablo

    I haven’t felt this unimpervious since Sarah Palin said people in small towns are better Americans. 

    • Anonymous

      Wow, did she really say that?

      • eldaveablo

         “We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation. This is where we find the kindness and the goodness and the courage of everyday Americans. Those who are running our factories and teaching our kids and growing our food and are fighting our wars for us. Those who are protecting us in uniform. Those who are protecting the virtues of freedom.”

        • Jaceczko

          Could you post the source of the quotation?

          • eldaveablo

            The quote was originally part of this Washington Post Article: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/10/to-avoid-being-depressed-palin.html?hpid=topnews

            Then dug into and provided further clarification on huffpost: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/17/palin-clarifies-what-part_n_135641.html

            There may be better sources, but I just did a quick search to find these. 

          • eldaveablo

            Here’s the Washington Post full version: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/10/palin-clarifies-her-pro-americ.html

          • Anonymous

            The quote actually starts with “We believe that the best of America is not all in Washington, D. C.”

            She was speaking to, and apparently recognizing, hard working, small-town Americans, maybe even some that (gasp) cling to their guns and religion – according to some DC elite.

            She’s pure evil.  Oh, maybe she was just exhausted from campaigning for John McCain across all those – 57 is it? – states.   

          • eldaveablo

            Personally, I like to cling to my alcohol and professional sports, but to each their own…

          • Anonymous

            You are all a bunch of impervious motherfuckers is all I know.

          • Anonymous

            Don’t forget resilient and irrepressible!  Silly me, I moved TO Cleveland when I was 25.  And I’m still here, for better or worse.

          • Anonymous

            “Oh, maybe she was just exhausted from campaigning for John McCain across all those – 57 is it? – states.”

            Nope, 49. Hawaii doesn’t count.

            Titter titter.

          • Anonymous

            *Holding my ribs*

          • Anonymous

            Never, ever let go of your ribs!  
            Well….   unless it is to pick up your beer.You can eat the silly cole slaw, potatos, et cetera later.Keep holding your ribs.

          • Anonymous

            Acto –
            Left hand – beer (Miller product if available, or Guinness)
            Right hand – rib (dry rub, preferably)

            Advanced technique – Get a straw for the beer, so 2 hands free for ribs and/or slaw.  No taters, Slingblade.

          • Anonymous

            Great Campain strategy given that more Americans are living in metropolitan areas than anytime in history. I know, she didn’t count on that comment getting published because small towns don’t have that Internet thingy.

          • Anonymous

            Let’s not forget how may people living in metropolitan areas of America are not actually Americans.

            Pretty sure Palin wants votes only from those with a legal right to do so.

          • Anonymous

            Let’s not forget how may people living in metropolitan areas of America are not actually Americans.

            Pretty sure Palin wants votes only from those with a legal right to do so.

      • Anonymous

        She did not. Not exactly, anyway.

        “We believe that the best of America is not all in Washington, D.C. We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we
        get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the
        real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic,
        um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation.”

        It’s sufficiently confused that I think she left room for anyone to read into it whatever they want… as is the politicians wont. The only thing she really logically seemed to imply is that there are geographical areas that are more “hardworking,”  more “pro-America,” more “real,” ergo, areas that are less so. DC seems to belong to the later, and whether it is that way because there are too many other politicians there, or it’s too big, or the demography is somehow not exactly to her taste… that is left open and she preferred not to do the Greek in follow-ups.

        • Anonymous

          Never ceases to amaze me how the press will dissect every word (or email for that matter) uttered by some politicians, hoping to find an implied nuance of a grain of an idea that could potentially be construed by negative-minded people as controversial or divisive – while OTHER politicians lob them one after another, right down the middle of the plate, and the media takes all way, bat on the shoulder, like they’re in a perpetual 3-0 pitch count.

          One big long sentence, just like Sarah!!!

          Eldaveablo – “I haven’t felt this unimpervious since Sarah Palin said people in small towns are better Americans.”
           Peter – “Uh-oh, here we go.”

          That is all…

          • Anonymous

            >>>hoping to find an implied nuance of a grain of an idea that could potentially be construed>>>

            Oh it really is there, it’s just all in the dance politicians have to do. On the one hand, about 90% of political choice is motivated by negative response, so politicians send these signals to bring in their base intentionally (eg. I hate/pity [pompous big-city elites]/[racist small-town hillbillies] just like you do!)

            The media now is just so much more hungry for stories that will get viewer$ or li$tener$, and conflict is the number one thing that does that. So they really try to expose this and interpret the insult as broadly as possible. Flubs work the same way, they get magnified because doing so brings out the defenders/attackers. it’s blood in the water for the shark show.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            In all fairness, when she feeds the media batshit crazy comments about Paul Revere “warning the British”, then of course the media is going to go crazy with it – as they should.

            It gets even better when she gets coached up on American History for a few days, declares that she wasn’t wrong, and goes on to say that Paul Revere actually told the British that they weren’t going to “take our guns away”. 

            I mean holy shit, can you really blame the media for the feeding frenzy here?  Palin is a complete dolt.  Bachmann is even worse, because she seems to be flat out malicious.

          • Anonymous

            Let’s see…
            Misspeaking about an historical event we only read about when we were in grade school = Dolt.

            So how would you categorize having to call and apologize to the family of a deceased military hero for confusing him with a living recipient of the Medal of Honor (after all, you’d handed out sooooo many of the military’s highest honor – wait, only 3?  Never mind.)

            Here’s the story, from 2 different sources, in case you missed it like a lot of people did:

            http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/24/news/la-pn-obama-mistake-medal-of-honor-20110624

            http://nation.foxnews.com/president-obama/2011/06/23/obama-dishonors-medal-honor-winners-horrible-gaffe

            I really like how the LA Times laughed it off as a senior moment, oh he’s working so hard.  

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Pardon me, but what the fuck are you talking about?  Did I mistakenly cross some unspoken vaginal sisterhood line or something?

            I’m sure there was a plaque on the wall in the historical Paul Revere house that she was standing in while she was talking to the press.  This plaque probably explained exactly what Paul Revere did in 1775. She may have even gotten it right, if only she could read it.

            The glaring difference I see here is that one person was willing to admit when they were wrong, and one person was not.

          • Anonymous

            No vaginal sisterhood line.  I really want to make a Hillary joke, but I won’t.

            The difference that you don’t see, obviously, is that one person is constantly attacked by the emasculated left-leaning media, while the other person, who happens to be in a position of power and should be held to a higher standard, gets a pass.

            The disparity of media coverage in this country is pretty glaring, Chris, and I was only trying to demonstrate that, which you have actually helped me to do.

            Politicians with an R after their name constantly get thrown around sites like this while the D’s do not, unless it’s a digital dingus fool like the Weiner.  I just get tired of it after a while.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            I understand your point.  But I assure you, I don’t bag on Sarah Palin because she’s a republican. I take my shots at her because she publicly makes some of the most mindblowingly stupid comments that I’ve ever heard.

            I’m equal opportunity when it comes to making fun of people, I promise.

          • Believelander

            I never once considered voting for John McCain because the chances of him dying in office and leaving THAT WOMAN in command of our country literally caused me fear.

          • Anonymous

            We could go on and on here, but I feel like we are disrespecting Peter’s well thought out,  insightful and most importantly non-mean-spirited offering about our fair city. 

            Frowns, I apologize for monopolizing your truly heartfelt homage to hearty Clevelanders with my knee-jerk reaction to another meaningless, off-handed Palin dig.  Please know that I do always appreciate where you are coming from, and it’s kind of a game now for me to try to predict what your post will be about.  You often surprise me there, dammit.  Just when I think I know……….Curses, you come out of left field with a real beaut.

            Eldaveablo, you better be wearing a cup if I see you anytime soon.  xoxo  Then I will happily buy you a shot, young man. 

          • Anonymous

            The thing with her is all her mistakes are pretty understandable if she’d just say “well I was tired and you have to answer these things 24/7 and whoopsie. But instead she blames whoever asked her whatever innocent question, acts like its all a great conspiracy against her, and doubles down again and again even to the point of rewriting history to fit her gaff. Personality disorder. But then most politicians do have their problems. It’s just funny that we turn this into sport. You hear about these gaffs 400 times before you hear about actual, you know, policy, even once.

            Apropos of that and Tuesday’s discussion, maybe it’s too bad there isn’t an 80% estate tax.

          • Anonymous

            IMO, media coverage on the whole has a conflict bias and a money bias. Since you can now pick your media and insulate yourself however you want, from Daily Kos to Fox News, no one should really feel victimized. If not for the culture of us-them that this whole thing creates, I don’t know why anyone would defend folks like Palin and Weiner.

            Honestly, not having the foggiest inklings about the core of the Revere story right after visiting the site– then deciding you’d rather double down and rewrite history than admit you got something wrong… that’s personality defect stuff on the order of Weiner. I say those two should be forced to marry.
             

          • Anonymous

            CM and CLTIL, I am very far to the left in any political argument, but CM, I believe that you meant Maginot Line, not vaginal line.

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Hah! Well played.  You might be right about that.

          • Anonymous

            Dear Acto and Chris M,
             Sorry if I’m not a war buff.  Also sorry for you poor saps for whom a vaginal line is akin to the Maginot Line…maybe you’d have more success switching sides?

            Love, Your Big Sister  xoxo  ( who happens to be of French and German heritage, wouldn’t you know.)

            We’ll hug it out at the next family reunion, ‘kay?

          • Anonymous

            CLTIL,
            Hillary Joke??   Hillary Clinton is absolutely brilliant.
            I am just a dum sales guy so I appreciate intelligence, you can take every republiclown, Libetarian, et al political party and they could all join together and not hold a candle to the amazing intelligence of Hillary and Bill Clinton.

             

             

          • Anonymous

            The joke pertained to relating “vaginal” and “sisterhood” with Hillary Rodman Clinton. 

            I tried to stay away but I needed to clarify.  She’s smart all right.   So was the Unibomber.

          • Anonymous

            CLTIL,   You are brilliant, charismatic and enigmatic, I hope your SO is a dum guy.  Dum guys like smart chicks.
            I may have actually understood the respective joke, I was trying to add a dry twist.
            Obviously to no avail.

          • Anonymous

            The joke pertained to relating “vaginal” and “sisterhood” with Hillary Rodman Clinton. 

            I tried to stay away but I needed to clarify.  She’s smart all right.   So was the Unibomber.

          • Believelander

            The fact that Sarah Palin has more than ZERO political clout, credibility, and currency in this nation TERRIFIES ME to DEATH. The fact that George Bush II was elected President of the United States ONCE (remember, he was not elected President of the United States by the people of the United States in 2000), scares me less than the fact that Sarah Palin could have been Vice President.

            It amuses me about the emasculated left-leaning media in this country. As a young person (if I remember, you’re a bit older than me, Cleve), I feel that the media is horribly right-leaning.

            The reason you don’t hear about Democrats doing dumb shit on the news is because they’re too busy not doing anything while figuring out what to not do. As a person raised to be a staunch Democrat, I am intensely disappointed in my party’s failure to demolish a Republican party that blatantly favors the rich over the people who matter and pounds out horrible idea after horrible idea. The Democrats, meanwhile, put up candidates like John Kerry, victimizing America with 4 more years of Bush when any trustworthy-seeming human being could have won that election; 2 years later, Bush broke his own record for all-time lowest Presidential approval polls several times in a row. But now, somehow from the inanity that was bush, the INSANITY that is the Tea Party movement has found Hermes’ sandals. And political steroids. Meanwhile, a Democrat-dominated congress manages to wet their pants and not galvanize behind the most intense and galvanizing President since Reagan (who, imho, was more potent than Clinton by a long shot), and now they’ve lost that edge. In two more years, the idiotic American hamsters will forget why the Richpublicans got CRUSHED in the 2008 election and sop up all the Republican-favoritist media bullshit and elect the next president to continue our plunge back into the stone age, because -my- party was a bunch of ninnies too worried about their own political hides to do anything meaningful.

            We need a common sense party, because a two-party system fails. We have the Republicans who are very good at implementing bad ideas and the Democrats who are awful at enacting good ideas. Now the Tea Party is a potential independent party emerging on a platform of a completely batshit lack of common sense, so we need a party based on, well, intelligence and effectiveness to counter them. I think Petey would make a good champion; he’s pretty close to as far from being Sarah Palin as I can think of someone being. Let’s get this done, ladies and gents.

          • Anonymous

            Oh my god you guys stop.

          • Anonymous

            Sorry Peter!  I really did like your post! 

          • Anonymous

            It’s all good. Just want everyone to be nice is all.

          • Anonymous

            In case you don’t have kids…….this is what it’s like! 

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            You’re alright, sis.

          • Anonymous

            Funny thing is, I turn to sports to take me away from the ugliness that is politics, and it pokes its head in here, too.  I promise to refrain..

          • Anonymous

            Sorry, I was out for while. Did I miss anything?

          • Anonymous

            Thanks for the big smile on my Friday morning!

  • http://twitter.com/Dennymayo Denny

    Living in the desert is mad chill, except that it’s hot all the time.

  • Anonymous

    >>You don’t have to be Al Gore to wonder about what kind of damage is done by people who blame their problems on the weather and run off to the desert to soak themselves in a massive sprawl of freon and chlorine. >>

    !!!!!!!!!!!FROWNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!Nice Work. The only problem with Cleveland is that there are still a significant number of people who believe preservative weather is something to complain about who haven’t left yet. 

    • Believelander

      Not gonna lie, I’ll take the sh*tty spring we just had over dying when Planet Earth decides to swat half of Kansas like a fly with a giant black cloud that’s thicker and more well hung than…..never mind.

      But those ‘oh you don’t know what heat is like’ desert-ers (not deserters, the Clevelanders who deserted -know- what Cleveland heat and AZ heat are like) make me laugh. I’ve been to ‘Zona and hot is hot, but when it’s 90 degrees and you’re breathing water, it’s something else.

  • http://bryanjoiner.com/ Bryan Joiner

    God bless this country for bringing me this blog. This work is exquisite. I will celebrate it with delicious water.

    (Guy whose 50 percent of immediate family lives in Arizona)

  • http://twitter.com/byRiverBurns River Burns

    While I am tired of apologizing for taking a better job in the desert, I
    still get pissed when the locals tell me that there was/is no life to be had in
    Cleveland.  Truth be told, there are just some aspects of living there that I
    will never get back, and that sucks.  Let me tell you something though, that
    resiliency remains in our hearts, even when we’re referred to as “Hollywood” or
    “uptown” by those we left behind.  I’m not a jerk for not living there, but I am
    a (self-proclaimed) jerk for telling those who do they can’t root for the
    Steelers or LeBron.

    • Jaceczko

      Actually, River Burns, you are a jerk for not living there. 

      And so am I. 

      And so is each of us.

      • Anonymous

        nah

        • Anonymous

          Case closed again.

          • Anonymous

            nah

          • Anonymous

            bicoastal living is where it’s at!  

          • Believelander

            Agreed. You have Cleveland fans, then you have ‘Cleveland fans’.

    • Anonymous

      River Burns,
      There were good reasons to leave for all of us expatriates. 
      I am reminded of this whenever I return and everyone asks for money.
      Although, I am tempted to move back because a large collocation company may move to Brook Park of all places.
      If they let me take vacation Dec-April I may return.  (Certainly to no fanfare.)
      I do miss the Eastern European food, the Browns, the Indians and that other team.

      • Anonymous

        PAY ME, ACTO.

        • Anonymous

          I missed the punch line Frownie.
          I will happily pay you, we are in the midst of a Greek payback anyway, but please let me know how much you want and for what.
          Please remember however that I am an indigent loser nobody, so it may take me a while to fulfill my obligations. 

          • Anonymous

            Why do you keep putting yourself down?  Stop doing that.  Just because you’re far left doesn’t mean you’re worthless, so knock it off.   It’s never too late to better yourself. 

        • Anonymous

          On a far off tangent, Pete, have you spent much time on the Greek Isles?
          6.000 islands and the most beautiful place I have ever visited.

          • Anonymous

            Some, not enough. My dad was born in Crete.

  • http://twitter.com/byRiverBurns River Burns

    The large crowds at Chase Field, largest non-weekend gate on Tuesday and 26.8k 
    for the getaway game Wednesday, can be explained, perhaps by the fact that the
    Tribe is making just their second regular season appearance ever in Phoenix (and
    first since 2003).   It’s the same here for the Red Sox, Yankees, Steelers, Cowboys, Broncos, Red Wings, Cubs, and Packers.  This is a transplant town, often joked to be the largest suburb of Chicago.  To be fair to the locals, its a lot easier to represent for three baseball games every eight years, one football game every four to eight years, and one inter-conference NBA matchup each season than it is to fill the venue for a full home slate with the home colors.

    • Anonymous

      Largest suburb of Chicago. OF COURSE.

  • Jaceczko

    As an Akronite living abroad in the swamp where the Red Team and the Blue Team play their incessant games, getting paid, idolized, excused, blamed, praised, and copied like athletes, and with little to zero more reason for it, I for one would love to come back some day.

    And articles like this (and the one about “CleveBurgh”) make me want it even more.

    • Fool me once…

      I hear ya…moved from Cleveland to Chicago a decade ago for a job. And although I think ‘the swamp’ is a fabulous place for any 20 something year old with a bit of scratch and little real responsibility, my heart aches to return to the Chagrin Valley. What my good buddy Joekim Noah won’t understand till he’s a bit older, however, is that Cleveland beats the windy in the quality of life index in almost everyway.

      Once you get past the age of oggling at the sluts at Rockit (admittedly – pretty hot), the 4am last calls, the unreal fancy dining options, and the incredible lakefront you’ll soon realize that the city extracts a lot of you to live that way. When you finally have a family you’ll probably move to the burbs and enjoy souless living on a flat grid of housing and strip malls that extends for 50miles in all directions. You’ll have a lot of time to contemplate your existence when you’re trapped in all the bumper to bumper traffic that is required to get anywhere. And all the while you’ll be paying 50% more to enjoy these perks in a location with a decent school district.

      Sigh…Cleveland, i miss ya….

  • Isjoe10

    The worst that would happen to Cleveland with the a Climate Change would be Warmer winters. Not shoveling my drive 3 times a day for 4 months straight? I’ll take it.

    • Anonymous

       I think most models actually say more snowfall and big snowstorms here. Which is cool by me. But I xcountry ski to work, so, there you have it.

      • Isjoe10

        More snow eh? I guess it will just make me more resilient.

      • Anonymous

        bupa, good man!
        I appreciate your cross country commute.
        4 days a week I used to do an 86 mile, 172 mile round trip bicycle commute, but that is nothing compared to a cross country ski commute.
        I tried cross country skiing long ago.  It would take me all week to get to work
        .
        I sucked at cross country skiing, I can speed skate, I am really good on the bike, but skis jump up, hit me in the face and oftentimes I require stitches.
        I am not the athletic type.
        I would like to hear more about your XC skiing.

  • Bob

    Nailed it.  Preach on brother.

  • http://hardawayhatespittsburgh.blogspot.com PittsburghisforManLovers

    Leaving Cleveland didn’t make me soft – eating too many doughnuts from Fragapane’s already took care of that way beforehand.

    http://www.yelp.com/biz/fragapane-bakeries-and-deli-bay-village#hrid:b1eTWbIWncPVbPkl0gZrDQ

  • http://twitter.com/Orionfree448 Orionfree

    The best of Cleveland is completely captured right here…..including the comments where the aptly named “River Burns” is no longer in Cleveland….. 

    • http://twitter.com/byRiverBurns River Burns

      Touche

      • Anonymous

        The best things in life are right here in Cleveland
        There are friendly people near
        Getting around is easy here
        It is a town where great things happen all year
        You can live in the country and be minutes from town
        Catch a show
        Grab some nightlife
        Or just shop around
        Cause Cleveland’s a great place to live 
        Oh the best things in life are here
        Yes the best things in life are here.

        Does anyone else remember that song?
        What was that from?
        I think it may have been a local TV station.
        The name John Hambrick comes to mind.

        • http://twitter.com/Orionfree448 Orionfree

          Lol…..I remember him as a newscaster…..but his album is available on iTunes!

        • Anonymous

          Judd Hambrick

        • Anonymous

          Judd Hambrick

        • Anonymous

          Judd Hambrick

          • Anonymous

            Judd was his little brother.
            I was already 12oo miles south by the time Judd was on TV.

  • Anonymous

    BYE BYE JJ  – HELLO OMAR!   NEO will love Caspri, especially the Jewish Community

    • Anonymous

      I’m cool with this. Hickson will never get it, and we really could use what Casspi’s got. I have more faith in him developing further than JJ.

      • Anonymous

        absolutely!  i love Casspi’s game..  been a fan of his since for the past couple years..  he will fit perfectly at the 3 for us, has a good and still developing offense and he already has great defensive skills.. 

        wish JJ the best, but he definitely didn’t seem to have the aptitude to learn what Byron was preachin on both ends of the floor..  

        • Jim

          Hickson will “never get it?” That’s quite a statement regarding a 22 yr. old who averaged almost 18 ppg and 10+ rebounds a game the last three months of the season after getting out of Byron Scott’s doghouse. 

          His defense is/was terrible for sure. Yet he was one player on the Cavs who actually had a legitimate offensive skill set. Now we trade him for an older player who’s ceiling is nowhere near as high as JJ’s.  Casspi is a solid player  but his potential is limited. While was hurt last season his PER was a 11, which is Sahsa Pavlovic territory.

          The Cavs are basically betting Tristan Thompson will replace JJ. I’m not so sure its a bet I would take seeing as how Thompson’s weaknesses are described as “needs to learn how to play the game” and “offense.”

          Only time will tell but I’m a sucker for potential and was hoping JJ would get one more shot.

             

          • Anonymous

            having a 4 who can’t defend is not going to fly with Byron, or with any team who wants to win many games..  that is why he was expendable..  even if he puts up 20, if he allows 25 every night, then it means nothing.. 

            Casspi is a great defender and he is still developing his offensive game, but he’s got mad handle for a 6’9″ dude and hopefully can play Point Forward at times for us and create for Irving and the other guys..  i think it’s a great trade for the Cavs..

          • Jim

            Byron Scott isn’t exactly a defensive whiz. His teams are known more for his offensive system; the pro version of the princeton offense not his defensive schemes. If Zack Randolph can develop into a solid NBA defender, I see no reason why JJ can’t eventually. At its core defense is more about desire than skill, especially when one is as physically talented as JJ.

            Maybe this trade works out. I obviously hope it does. It just feels like we gave up on JJ a little too early. He’s only 22 and has only gotten meaningful minutes for one entire season; last year. Remember, this is the same guy who a year ago we refused (if you believe the reports) to trade for Amare. Now we trade him for Casspi who, despite how good he may be or become, is not in Amare’s class. 

          • Anonymous

            trade for Amare???   it was not a straight up trade my friend.   JJ is no where near the class as Amare, you crazy boi

          • Jim

            I agree. Never said he was. I’m saying that the Cavs (the “we” in that sentence) at one time apparently (again there are conflicting reports as to who backed out of the deal) refused to part with JJ as the centerpiece in an Amare deal. A year later and Cavs trade him for Casspi who at his best, is a borderline starter on a contender.

          • Anonymous

            i think you’re misguided on what the Cavs were reported to have offered to PHX..  also keep in mind the situation was completely different for PHX who were risking losing Amare for zero, zilch, nada, which is in fact what they got for Amare.. he walked..

            the fact of the matter is, the PF position is now a position of depth for the Cavs with 2 legit NBA starters who can play the 4 (Andy and Jamison) and with TT learning the ropes from them..   and the SF position is a huge glaring hole that they feel Omri can fill.. 

            not to mention the fact that since the Cavs have frowned on JJ and/or his prospects to ever “get it”, they did not want to have him walk next year for nothing..  

            overall though, i think you will be very happy with Casspi’s game, which is still developing by the way.. he def has a lot of potential to become a key piece in this rebuild process..   and who knows, maybe the flip him and the exception for Iggy.. 🙂

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            That Amar’e talk was shot down by everyone with any kind of connections to the league.  Kerr pulled the plug on that, not Ferry.

            Anyhow, we’ve seen JJ’s ceiling – lackadaisical, unattentive, awful defender.  He was the best scorer on a bad team.

            Athletic as hell, but he clearly doesn’t want to put the work in to get better, and Scott shouldn’t have to give him a pep talk 82 times a season to get him to play hard. He’s basically Drew Gooden’s little brother.

          • Jim

            Ceiling? He’s 22. Did you hit your ceiling upon graduating from college? My drinking ceiling maybe, but I tend to believe I’ve yet to hit my ceiling as I have gotten more experience in this game of life.

            People still talk about Lebron not hitting his ceiling yet after 8 full seasons as a full-time starter in the league.

            JJ Hickson may be alot of things, but he has certainly not hit any ceiling. That’s why I would have given him one more year since he was cost effective to see if he could actually develop into a starter on a playoff caliber team and continue to show the improvement he did the last three months of this past season. 

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            [redacted] You’re obviously a professional scout who sees something that Grant and every other fan in Cleveland does not see

          • Jim

            Right, because only a professional scout could surmise that a 22-year-old who played one year of college ball and started for roughly one year in the NBA hasn’t hit his ceiling as a professional player yet.

            I suggest laying off the hyperbole. You otherwise make valid points; JJ is a bad defender which stems from his motivational issues. That being said, his play and attitude really turned around the last three months of the season. While he put up good numbers on a bad team, his baskets and rebounds count just as much as those of any Celtic. or Heat. or Spurs player. The fact is he was given a longer leash by Scott due to injury and ineffectiveness of others and he played extremely well. 

          • Anonymous

             I don’t disagree that JJ’s ceiling is higher, but he has a pretty well established motivational problem. Maybe he amps it up this year looking for that contract, then you buy the fools’ gold, and what do you have? An overpriced, un-tradeable gold-bricker weighing you down for years. I give second and third and fourth chances for lots of things, but not trying hard isn’t one of them. I think Byron feels the same way.

          • Anonymous

            Youre talking about a different time spectrum.  Normal careers last 30-40 years and at 22, youre right, you are just getting started.  NBA players last 6-12 and JJ is already numerous seasons in.   JJ is a known commodity in the NBA

          • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

            Also, just to clarify, I didn’t say he hit his ceiling.  I said we’ve seen it.  I think we all have a pretty good idea of what he’s capable of.  What’s in dispute here is whether or not he’s going to reach it.

            I don’t think he will.  If you ask me if we’re better off with Thompson, Casspi and a first rounder, I believe we are.

          • Anonymous

            defensive wiz or not, he has certain expectations of his players on the defensive side of the ball, and he made it pretty clear about his frustrations with JJ’s performance on defense.. 

          • Justin

            According to “sources” over at RealCavsFans, we’re getting a Sac 1st rounder as well.  If it is, in fact, a 1st rounder in next year’s draft, Grant hit another trade out of the park.  2012 is going to be a loaded draft and we may have set ourselves up for 2 more (including our own after another crappy year) high 1st rounders.  This is how small market teams build up their talent base in today’s NBA… WHATS NOT TO LIKE!?

          • Anonymous

            lottery protected next year, and then protected for the next 5 years as well..  but still, i like the deal..  we have way too many PF’s and ZERO SF’s..  

          • Justin

            Ok… apparently the pick is a protected one, so no more visions of another #1 pick with another team’s 1st rounder. 

            Unconfirmed Details: “Protection specifics on pick going from Kings to Cavs: Protected
            1-to-14 in 2012, 1-to-13 in 2013, 1-to-12 in 2014, 1-to-10 from
            2015-2017.”

            Still a good trade in my eyes though… especially considering JJ’s impending free agency and what he reportedly will want salary-wise. 

            Also… What the hell are the Kings thinking trading for another PF?!  J. Thompson, Cousins, now JJ?!  I’m willing to bet Thompson will be gone soon enough.

          • Anonymous

            JT has some game too, someone will get lucky if they scoop him up..  Maybe they envison playin Cousins at 5..  

          • Anonymous

            got a 1st rounder from them as well, but protected for the next few years..  

          • Jim

            I’m not sure how valuable of a pick it is as you mentioned it’s lottery protected until 2017 and then it becomes a second rounder. This was basically a JJ for Casspi trade with some hope attached. Although I’ll admit Gilbert hit the lottery once with the Williams trade. Maybe the Kings become average and Cavs get a mid first round pick who can contribute.

          • Anonymous

            yeah i guess we have a reason to root for JJ to be a monster next year with Tyreke and Cousins..

          • cranky m

            i hate these arguments about JJ being immature and unable to “get it.”  Dude is 22. Playing in the NBA doesn’t magically accelerate your maturity. A 22 year old is a 22 year old. When i was 22, i was a fucking mess. Giving up on JJ WAY too early, in my opinion, for someone who’s ceiling is about half as high.

          • Anonymous

            take it up with Chris Grant..  in the meantine, IN GILBERT WE TRUST.  derp

          • Anonymous

            and hate the arguments all you want.. obviously byron didn’t like him, if his constant public beratement of JJ wasn’t clear enough..  

    • Anonymous

      Maybe Casspi will go the the Hampsteins with Lerner, too.

    • Believelander

      Meh.

  • Anonymous

    Oh FrOrange. You’re so cute when you’re WRONG.

    The best water supply and infrastructure doesn’ t make a difference when you have a corrupt underclass of pre-verbal louts running the county administration,  judiciary and police forces.

    These people could ruin a wet dream.

    The worst class of people are in charge of the best assets.  The slaves have seized the capitol…..run!

    • Anonymous

      This is one of those days I have to ask. Are you wearing the burgundy kimono today or the “off-white” one? The good thing about the vodka is that it doesn’t stain.

      • Anonymous

        Stop it. You know I hate it when you do that.  I’m wearing the spotted boa.

        Neither does methamphetamine…….

    • Believelander

      People who claim other peoples’ opinions are wrong have always amused me, in a way similar to boner jokes.

      • Anonymous

        You not allowed to say “boner”.   Pete said this is a family site……

      • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

        You’re completely mistaken here.  It’s not amusing at all.

  • Anonymous

    Undisirregardless, too.

    • Believelander

      Any non-existent word so complex I can’t decipher its meaning is okay by me.

  • http://twitter.com/cpmack Chris M

    Here’s getting to the heart of my accounting argument for professional sports franchises and why they ALWAYS make money.

    http://deadspin.com/5816870/exclusive-how-and-why-an-nba-team-makes-a-7-million-profit-look-like-a-28-million-loss

    Excellent read here.

  • http://sheahey.blogspot.com Coachie Ballgames

    “[W]hat kind of damage is done by people who blame their problems on the weather and run off to the desert to soak themselves in a sprawling mass of freon and chlorine.”
    wait, are we to believe that the fair people of the greater AK-Rowdy/BoneThugsland area do not use air-conditioners during their muggy summers? That they don’t use the A/C in their fly whips as they drive to and from Skyway? 
    What of winter? Do the fair citizens of RubberTown and MosesCleaveland not heat their homes? Where does that heat come from? Playing the album “Sports” by Huey Lewis and the News?

    • Anonymous

      Moderation, man. Moderation.

      And heat is totally different. Heat/AC = Butter/Margerine

  • Anonymous

    i liked pryor a lot more after seeing him with gruden.  seemed like good people.

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