Josh Cribbs: Pay the Man, but How Much?

by Cleveland Frowns on January 7, 2010

The top story at the Plain Dealer this morning is that “Josh Cribbs and his agents are insulted” by the Browns latest offer to pay Cribbs some $1.2 million on top of the $3 million or so that he’s set to make under his current contract that runs for three more seasons.

Cribbs’ agent called the offer “unacceptable,” and “a slap in the face.”

According to John Taylor of the OBR, if the Browns don’t change their current position, “Cribbs ‘will not step foot back in that facility. Ever.'”  He’ll “push for a trade on the first day of the league year in March,” and “if he is not given permission to shop himself, he will continue to stay away from the team and not participate in any OTAs or minicamps.”

Many Browns fans are understandably upset by the team’s inability to reconcile with its most productive player and unquestionable fan favorite, but there are several points worth considering in defense of the Browns’ position here.

The first being that Cribbs has signed a contract through 2013.  If he decides to hold out, he won’t be paid a dime.  Consider the unlikelihood that he’d hold out for even one full season, let alone three.  $4.2 million is a lot of money for anyone to leave on the table, let alone a guy who’s never made $1 million in a year, and likely won’t have a chance to make so much again.  In 2013, Cribbs will be a 30-year-old kick returner who was great three years ago, and might have been a decent running back as well.  Who will pay the man then?

Of course, that the Browns don’t have to pay Cribbs any more money to get him to play for them doesn’t mean they shouldn’t, but how much more is Cribbs really worth?

Recent history suggests that explosive kick returners (see Dante Hall and Devin Hester) don’t maintain their productivity for much longer than three seasons, and Devin Hester’s $5.45 million-per-year contract with the Bears has become something of a laughingstock.  Hester hasn’t returned a kick for a touchdown in two full seasons since signing his new deal.

It’s also important to ask how much of Cribbs’ stardom this season is due to the overall performance of the Browns’ excellent special teams units that didn’t allow a return touchdown all season, and led the league in allowing opponents only 18.9 yards per kick return.  Note that while Cribbs is the starting kick returner for the AFC Pro Bowlers this season, Leon Washington of Eric Mangini’s Jets occupied that slot last season.  The situation is at least somewhat similar to the Denver Broncos ability to reload at running back throughout much of the last two decades, and suggests that Cribbs is more easily replaceable than he might seem to be.

Finally, Cribbs’ contract is back-loaded, as he’s only set to earn $720,000 next season.  The Browns’ offer to pay him $1.4 million per year nearly doubles that, and increases his overall salary by more than 40 percent.  Questions about reworking a contract that doesn’t expire for a full three years, the longevity of kick returners, and the replacement costs of one part of an excellent kick return unit might lead one to conclude that the Browns’ offer is nowhere near insulting, if not entirely reasonable.

It’s understood that Cribbs is a fan favorite, and contributed tremendously to the success the team enjoyed in 2009, but the Browns shouldn’t mortgage their future for sentimental reasons.

$4.2 million is a lot of money, even over three years.  And Cribbs no doubt deserves it.  Adding incentives for special teams touchdowns, return yards, and output on offense that would kick his potential earnings to $8 million or so if he could maintain his current productivity seems more than fair, and should be something that both Cribbs and the Browns should want to do.  Claiming insult at a 40% baseline raise couldn’t possibly help here.

Cribbs’ agents have embarrassed him in the past with ridiculous claims about the commonplace reality of NFL teams putting forth effort on the field until the final whistle is blown, which corroborates our old friend Dawg Pound Mike’s claim of this week that these folks are amateurs. If it turns out that Josh Cribbs doesn’t wear the Orange and Brown in 2010 and beyond, we’ll suppose that his agents J.R. Rickert and Peter Schaffer are as much to blame as anyone else.

UPDATE: Cribbs’ agent J.R. Rickert responds via email.

  • Biki

    frownie, i would agree with you if your numbers were accurate, but i don't believe they are. the offer is for $1.4 million per year, not an increase of $1.4. he is scheduled to make $600K next year, not $3 million.

  • Biki

    actually, i'm not sure exactly what he is scheduled to make next year, but i do know that the offer is increased to a base of $1.4 per year for the remaining 3 years, not an increase of $1.4..

  • Pittsburgh is for Man Lovers

    From a purely business standpoint, I still think this a horrendously low offer. I don't think he should be getting 4-5M, but a good starting point should have been in the low 2's. You can't put a price tag on the goodwill generated to both the fans and Cribbs by not starting off in lowball city and working your way up. These aren't corporate negotiations and as much as it seems like they are thinking this way, it isn't "strictly business". The only leverage they have is that he is signed to a non_guaranteed contract that he is clearly outperformed and they are free to terminate any time. Not happy.

  • Pittsburgh is for Man Lovers

    I meant "has" not "is".

  • Titus Pullo

    This is all just posturing on the part of Cribbs' agents.

    They didn't negotiate his current contract so the only way they get paid is if he gets a new deal and it's in their best interests to get as much money as possible.

    I find it difficult to believe that Holmgren, in his first two days on the job, would deliver a "take it or leave it" offer to Cribbs.

    Cribbs wants $3 million, the team offers $1.4 million, they go back and forth and meet somewhere in the middle. It'll get done.

    One thing I'd be worried about if I was Cribbs is having the contract rely too much on incentives. We all know Mangini has no qualms about sitting someone down just to make sure they don't hit any contract incentives.

    And leave it to Frownie to take any situation and turn it into an example of Mangini's "greatness" : the Jets improve dramatically under Rex Ryan? Credit Mangini for picking good players! (I guess there was no GM in place in NY either). Cribbs makes another Pro Bowl as a returner? Credit Mangini!

    Well played sir, well played.

  • CleveBalla

    Yo dat playa cribb should be takin dat money yo. gurantee he listenin to his girl and all da shit she gon buy wit his money. Dont listen to da bitches cribb dey gon mess ya up. Dat a pay increase and if he wan a little mo den give him sum more paper dawg. Cribb is da key fo the browns in 2010 yo

  • Cleveland Frowns

    My numbers are accurate if the PD's are.

    Cribbs is set to earn an average of $1 m per year in the last three years.

    The Browns have offered a raise so that he'd average $1.4 m per year.

  • Cleveland Frowns

    The Jets improved dramatically under Ryan? Or did they achieve exactly the same record against a weaker schedule?

    Right.

    If you don't see that the improved special teams has contributed to Cribbs' Pro Bowl status then your head is in the sand.

  • Bryan

    "Recent history suggests that explosive kick returners (see Dante Hall and Devin Hester) don't maintain their productivity for much longer than three seasons"

    Thank you for bringing sanity here. Cribbs is using the fact that he's the best player on a crummy team for leverage, but a killer kick returner is by nature a complementary player and has quickly diminishing returns. I wouldn't blame him for finding someone to overpay him now, but if I were the Browns, I wouldn't worry about losing him. By the time they're ready to win, he almost certainly won't be this player anymore.

  • Ammo

    There's also reports that incentives reach $2 million/year.

    This doesn't even factor in whatever bonus money he'd receive (how about a 40% increase from the $2 million bonus he initially received?)

    He deserves a raise, and more than the $1.4 million offered. My guess is it'll be around $2 million before incentives and the bonus would reflect the raise in salary.

  • Pittsburgh is for Man Lovers

    Of course it's a bargaining tactic by his agents and they have every right to do it. If Holmgren is now calling the shots, then Dawn Aponte's posturing today is an emotional reaction to be called out for a terrible initial offer. Still not good.

  • Pittsburgh is for Man Lovers

    Geez, my grammar's horrible today

  • Biki

    yeah seems like you just made a typo, because you while you meant to say $4.2 for the entirity of the contract, you wrote $4.2 per year, which obviously would be more than fair.

  • Titus Pullo

    The main components of special teams are the kicker, punter, return man and long snapper. All those guys were already in place when Mangini took over, it's not like he found them on the street and turned them into talented players. They just did what they have always done.

    And I think Biki has more than covered how the Jets improved under Ryan, with the No. 1 defense, No. 1 rushing attack and making the playoffs with a rookie QB.

  • Bryan

    An incentive-laden contract would be the way to go, yes. Ammo's on target.

  • Biki

    not to mention that Cribbs was selected to the Pro Bowl 2 seasons ago, so like the famous words of Dennis Green, our special teams play "are what we thought they were."

  • smittypop2

    A) Thanks for regurgitating what I said last night and not giving me any credit for it. (see your last post and my comments)

    B) No love for the Hawk and how Robbie Alomar got completely f'd over?? What a joke baseball HOF voting is.

  • the commenter formerly known as p

    once upon a time you talked about the value of keeping "real browns" on the team and in the locker room. cribbs was one of very few "real browns" you and the frownie faithful could come up with in the new browns era.* it's not sentimental to do what we have to in order to keep our most productive player and one of our only "real browns." it's good business sense.

    *note also that cribbs is always among (if not the only) brown you quote when you argue the point that in the locker room the players respect mangini and are willing to work hard with him to make this team into something great again. you are underestimating the very real value of cribbs' sort of attitude if we're to get anywhere with this new regime.

  • Cleveland Frowns

    Good point, MLB is a joke up and down.

    But do you think you're the only one who knows that Hall and Hester were garbage after three years?

    Do I have to cite you for the fact that the Browns reside in Cleveland, too?

    Pullo: It's an interesting theory that the other eight people on the field have nothing to do with a kick returners performance. You could probably get that copyrighted, and maybe even get a job as an NFL special teams coach from there.

    And Biki: Cribbs 2009 was much better than Cribbs 2007, no?

  • Mike D.

    frownie – you are kind of ignoring a couple of important points here:
    1) cribbs was previously selected to the pro bowl (as biki mentioned) – so it isn't just systemic
    2) he adds a ton of value beyond the return game in that he is one of our leading TACKLERS on special teams as well
    3) hester has not been the exclusive return man over the seasons his production dropped off, and this wasn't a step the bears took because he was becoming less productive, but because they wanted to save him for offense since they had no WRs

    very good point made on why the agent wants a new contract – so he can get paid

    give him the $3M he wants a year and make him happy and the fans happy. it's going to be an uncapped season so if he gets overpaid for a year and gets injured you can always hack him in 2011 and this won't impact the browns salary cap.

  • Titus Pullo

    When did I say the other players were not important? Let me check … that's right, I didn't! I said the MAIN components of the special teams units were players that were already on the roster.

    Obviously you can't do it all by yourself, although Cribbs comes close. Just like a quarterback can't do it all when you hand him receivers that were drafted 5 rounds too early.

    Cribbs success this year was part of his natural progression as a football player.

  • smittypop2

    I 100% agree with Mike D. here. I just checked and Cribbs had a much higher return avg in 2007 in both Punts and Kicks. He was obviously better in other facets of the game this year.

  • Biki

    FYI: Adam Schefter reported this morning on Mike and Mike that he believes that an announcement regarding Eric Mangini will be made today and that Eric Mangini will be relieved of his duties as Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns.

  • CleveBalla

    Yo where da cavs roundup by biff? He gots no bitchin bout mike brown after da blow out? that sum bullshit if you ask me dawg. quit tryin to play us

  • Cleveland Frowns

    I think $3M a year is fair, all else equal, if the guy wasn't already signed for three more years.

    Since he is signed for three more years, I think a $1.5m baseline with the chance to make another $1.5m or so in incentives each year is fair.

    You have to consider the precedent here. Who else has had a deal ripped up with three years left on it? And if anyone, were they a special teams player?

  • Biki
  • Titus Pullo

    C'mon Biki. You know those "stats" and that "forum" were created by the Old School Media Secret Society whose primary goal is to make fun of Cleveland above everything else.

    They can't be trusted.

  • Chris

    Am I missing something here? When / where / why did the multiple Sexy Rexy Vs. Mangini comparisons come into play around here? Is Rexy available for hire by the Browns?

  • Cleveland Frowns

    Two things about those Jets numbers:

    First, last year's Jets played seven games against playoff teams. This year's Jets played five, and really only three if you count the Colts and Bengals lay-downs at the end of the season.

    Second, last year's Jets team could score, so the defense didn't have to play as tightly.

    You can't just look at the stats without looking at the context, but it's funny that both teams have the same record, despite a talent infusion, and that all the young talent that Mangini brought to the team had one more year to jell.

  • CleveBalla

    Yo you gon anser my question playa?!

  • Titus Pullo

    Mangini may have brought in the talent to the Jets, although I'm sure the GM has as much if not more input in selecting the players since they actually have a GM on the team.

    But Ryan coached them up to far exceed the results they produced last year.

  • smittypop2

    Also weird that they had a HOF QB last year and a rookie QB this year. How about having a really good RB and KR last year and an injured one this year. Those things can also be taken in or out of context. Who cares either way…this thing is about over and we can look to the future finally. I am hoping for a good hire and some good results. I am finally, finally excited for the things to come for the Browns (the only 2 times I have been excited since 1999 were the drafting of Tim Couch and the drafting of Thomas/Quinn in the first rounds).

  • Cleveland Frowns

    Pullo, that addresses neither of the two main points I made about those stats.

  • CleveBalla

    Yo dat playa Thomas was healthy dis year he was a good rb dawg.

  • CleveBalla

    Yo why you tryin to play me frowns. you anser all dem questions but mine playa. shit.

  • Chris

    "Also weird that they had a HOF QB last year who refused to sit out a game or 5 due to injury and because of his own selfishness and a rookie QB this year."

    fixed.

  • Chris

    Also, I haven't heard one name mentioned to replace Mangini that impresses me at all, for what it's worth.

  • CleveBalla

    Yo what bout bill belicheck. he gon bring dem super bowls to new england. Holmgren needs to bring sum chmpionship coach here to get us some supa bowl rings yo.

  • Biki

    frowns, you think the jets offense is better this year than last year??? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

  • Cleveland Frowns

    Sorry, balla: The answer to your question is that biff is buried deep deep deep in a salt mine somewhere. No one knows when he'll get out, really.

  • Cleveland Frowns

    Control yourself, Bik. The point was that last year's Jets offense was much better, so the defense didn't have to play as tightly to barely go over .500.

  • Biki

    please frownie, there is no question that the jets defense is a whole other animal under Rex Ryan.

    smitty is right, this is exhuasting and i can't wait till it's over with so we can all hopefully be on same page about the future of the brownies. i for one am pumped about the potential! (sans mangini of course)

  • Chris

    Bik, you should be pumped about your wallet (sans our money, of course).

  • Cleveland Frowns

    Even if that's the case, there are a lot of questions as to whether it wouldn't have been the very same animal under Mangini this season.

    As well as a lot of questions about the notion that Mangini would have had these Jets at 11-5, at least.

    If you don't want to ask those questions — and I know you don't — that's your business, but it doesn't mean that anyone has to believe you.

  • Biki

    well they may or may not have the same record.. they could in fact end up with a worse record if they lose on saturday, but obviously could have a better record if they win (which i think they will).

    For the love of Mark Gastineau and the New York Sack Exchange, get it done Rexy!

  • Biki

    how the heck do you know what record he would have ? i think 9-6 and losing Kris Jenkins and Leon Washington is pretty respectable considering it is a new coach and new rookie QB.

    not to mention that they lost 5 games by 4 points or less… a loss is a loss regardless of by how many points, but they had a real good shot of winning a few more games which would've been pretty impressive.

    but what's done is done, now is when the real season begins and rex has them in the show and everyone is 0-0, let's see how they do.

  • Ryan

    Ok I'm convinced that Frowns is the "Skip Bayless" of Cleveland sports blogs.

    I was going to give major props to Frowns for a piece about how Josh Cribbs is making far below fair market value considering he is the ALL TIME LEADER in NFL kickoff returns.

    Nope. Instead yet another "against the grain" take with random "hail Mangini's" sprinkled in for good measure.

    If you weren't so blindly fascinated by the "value" that Eric Mangini brings to the Browns you would realize that not locking up Josh Cribbs as he is entering his prime would be a mistake that some fans (including myself) would probably never forgive them for. There are far more reasons why the Browns SHOULD give Cribbs a new contract than the few reasons that you listed for why they should not.

    BTW, every team risks their players getting injured every time the ball is snapped. That should have no impact on the value of a player.

  • CleveBalla

    Yo what you mean buried in da salt mines? no wonder he only be writin on dem cavs loss, he only see dem play ever 2 weeks dawg. yall sum crazy white fools playa..haha

  • smittypop2

    I love how Favre is the blame for last year and Mangini is the reason they are good this year. The start they had with Favre also has nothing to do with the finish. Those are 2 seperate events and have nothing to do with each other….I am sure Mangini thought about bringing in superstud Kellen Clemens and really saving the day. That guy sucks and I am sure a hurt Favre still gave them the best chance to win. The same piece of crap Clemens sits behind Sanchez this year. Sanchez who has 12 tds and 20 ints this year is obviously a huge improvement on Favre who had 22 tds and 20 ints last year and a much higher rating. He also actually throws the ball downfield as opposed to Sanchez at this stage of his career. I just don't get all the blame on Favre, but none of the credit. He obviously really crushed Minnesota's playoff dreams this year.

  • smittypop2
  • Chris

    @ Balla- that made me laugh dude.

    @ Smitty- I can't WAIT to see Edwards shit the bed when it means the most. It'll be even better when it happens in the playoffs.

  • smittypop2

    @Chris—I do hate Braylon and think he won't even have a chance to shit the bed.

  • Sam Sneeda

    eyes closed, ball doinks off the helmet…does he think we are all that stupid? How annoying!

    WV: fart ho

  • Biki

    Schefter is reporting that Holmgren is keeping Mangini and the entire staff

  • Chris
  • Biki

    UGH. we'll i'm a lot poorer today because of it, but it is what it is.. in Holmgren we Trust.

    in the meantime, J-E-T-S, JETS, JETS, JETS!

  • Sam Sneeda

    Great news (to me). Holmgren set the ego aside and did the right thing…you were a year too early on your Browns total season over Frowner.

  • CleveBalla

    yo look at da frowns ballin out wit all dat cash from dem bets. he gon be makin' it rain out at da club tonite playa where da party at tonite frowns?

  • Chris

    Hey Balla, this is Ohio in January bro, we make it snow around here.

  • CleveBalla

    yo…hahaha..ok playa i hear ya dawg. you need to hit up w6th at nighttime they be sum fine chicas dat can make anybody warm playa..ahhh. holla at ya boy

  • El Capitan

    word.

  • CleveBalla

    yo dey call me da snow man, cause i got da good stuff. holla!

  • Cleveland Frowns

    New post. Freshen up!

  • Kracker

    I am also totally in agreement with frownie on this one…Cribbs days are numbered as a productive returner. So why give the guy a huge deal?

    From ESPN: Cribbs has three years remaining on a six-year $6.77 million deal. Cribbs made a base salary of $900,000 this past season. Cleveland offered to raise his annual salary to $1.4 million over the final three years of his contract.

    This team needs so many holes filled on offense alone that spending loads of money on a guy only scoring half a dozen times doesn't make sense. Teams will do everything they can next season to avoid kicking to him. And when Holmgren gets his offense installed our crappy version of the wildcat will be no more.
    I enjoy watching Cribbs as much as any other Cleveland fan….but if he continues to play this game I say trade him now while he’s hot and health.

  • wsblount

    Your numbers of completely wrong. I think you have a total misunderstanding of what the situation is currently, what the offer was and what Cribbs wants. I also think you are overlooking the fact that contracts are renegotiated all the time in the NFL, often very quietly and the new deals only become public because they have to be filed with the NFLPA. They aren't even contracts. The Browns could cut Cribbs tomorrow and not have to pay him a dime. That is not how real contracts in the real world work. It is patently unfair to suggest that nfl players can't request their deals to be redone.

  • Cory Hughey

    Can't agree more with this story. While everyone in Cleveland loves Cribbs and wants him back, he is what he is: a record breaking returner and an average at best offensive player. He runs sloppy routes at receiver and all he can do out of the wildcat is a qb draw. He probably would be more effective at running back because he's a reactionary player. It's a unique situation because there's a good chance this was the last year of his prime. Totally agree with the $1.5 base salary and incentives. Paying a guy over a million dollars per touchdown is mental.

  • psawi

    Not sure you will buy the analogy, but Mike Krzyzewski's ACC league won/lost performance his first 3 years was:
    6-8 (5th)
    4-10 (6th)
    3-11 (7th)
    3 year later he was in the NCAA championship game.
    This doesn't mean Mangini will turn out to be great. It just demonstrates that, sometimes, greatness is not immediately obvious.

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